Review of Concrete5 CMS vs. Joomla / Drupal / WordPress
While Joomla and Drupal are the leading open-source CMS systems in terms of adoption by developers, both still have room for improvement (and are indeed improving rapidly). In a nutshell, Joomla comes pre-installed with most everything you would expect to have on a site, and with a few extra addons you’re good to go. The Joomla 1.5 MVC architecture is powerful and the template coding is a clean and straightforward implementation of views in an MVC structure. On the other hand, Drupal is a framework that can be a blog, corporate site, social community, you name it. Out of the box it is not going to do very much for you; it requires customization, adding modules, etc. It offers much more fine-grained control over user permissions, event triggers, customizable views of content presentation (the “Views” module together with CCK), and .. dare I say it … an awful theming system. Consider it the price to pay for getting to use what is certainly a very powgerful system.
In terms of interface usability (for the regular user, not us web developers), Drupal and Joomla both can be quite easy to use, but not out of the box. Drupal takes a bit more work to get user-friendly. Especially input formats need attention. The FCK editor with IMCE for file uploads is great, and the Wysiwyg module is probably the next big thing in Drupal editors – very nicely done.
WordPress beats both Joomla and Drupal in usability, hands-down, but customizing WordPress to make it function like a CMS is not as simple as one would like. It’s not WordPress’s fault: it’s a blogging platform.
OK, and now the reason for this post. Concrete5.
Concrete5 is yet another CMS built on PHP/MySQL, and claims to beat Joomla and Drupal, both in terms of usability and superior code. A big claim, for sure. We tried it out on the Plethora Design development server and LOVED the ease of use when editing pages and customizing the look and feel of things. Joomla has some extensions that allow in-line editing, but not in-line template modification like this, except in very early alpha stages. Drupal is working on similar things but this is all still in alpha and beta, and months if not years way from being in core. So, one point for Conrete5.
Since it claims to be so easy to use, I tried to put myself in the shoes of one of our clients. I gave myself 10 minutes to figure it out, with using any tutorials or documentation, because if it is easy to use, tutorials and documentation should not be needed. So here’s what I did. I said to myself:
“I want to add a page. Oh, look, there’s an Add Page button”. Great.
“I need to edit this page. Aaah, an Edit Page button.” Cool.
What is especially wonderful is the ability to drag and drop page elements on the fly, and there is a nice context menu available when you click on an editable item.
Note that frontend editing is possible with both Joomla and Drupal but Concrete5 presents it in a (much) slicker way.
A very nice feature is the ability to edit the built-in image gallery.
Well, that covered most of the needs a small “brochure” site might need.
Last item;
“I need to add a contact form and also an application form with file uploads.”
I was not able to find a way to add a form. I know in Concrete5 forms are called “widgets” and you can also use external forms. Why is there no simple “Add Form” button like there is an “Add Page” button? I could find no way of doing this, even though the default installation (with sample data) does have an About page with a form embedded in it, and there is a Forms core block installed by default. I also know that file uploads are supported on forms. That’s all well and good, but now I want to add one, and I can’t. I spent about 10 minutes looking into this, checking their forum and documentation, and was none the wiser. I’m sure the answer is simple, but it should be obvious, especially for a CMS claiming such superiority. I may give it a whirl again at some other time, because it does look very well-suited to small sites … not for anything beyond that in my opinion (although I do realize it has a solid API and a dedicated developer community, so I could be taking this back in the future!).
Update:
See Tony’s comment below and this screencast on how to add a form in Concrete5. More videos for end users here.
Adding forms *is* very easy. The “Add to Main” link is not visible enough, but once you know where to look it’s not a problem. I think there ought to be an “add to main” icon floating to the left or right of the main content area, so one doesn’t need to scroll all the way down the page to find it. But the form editing here certainly blows Joomla and Drupal out of the water with its ease of use.
Conclusions
In terms of ease of use it is in the same league as hosted site builders such as Google Sites and Yahoo SiteBuilder (and that is not an insult!!), but with more control, and the ability for developers to extend the functionality. It’s as easy to use as WordPress, with the added bonus of being able to adjust the look and feel on the fly too. Overall it looks like a great CMS and is worth trying out. Why haven’t Joomla and Drupal added this kind of easy editing, after their many years and thousands of dedicated developers? It’s a bit baffling.
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December 17th, 2010 - 08:17
The problem with most of the PHP projects I’ve seen is the poor coding.. I’ll check Concrete5 since it get good reviews! Thanks for the article.
December 29th, 2010 - 20:50
I’ve been using C5 for the better part of a year, building almost all my client’s sites in it (except for eCommerce, using Magento). It smokes the competition. I can have a site up in a week, train the client, and move onto the next client.
February 17th, 2011 - 23:37
Is Concrete 5 good for having lots of users who submit art (or other images and documents) to the site? I have a website where I have to go in and put each image up on each artist’s page, and as our site grows, we will need some kind of system where people can sign up, become users, submit their designs to our online magazine, and those submissions need to be moderated by us along the way. Is Concrete 5 capable of this? If so, is it easy to figure out?
Thanks.
February 18th, 2011 - 05:31
I don’t know. Anybody have any advice?
February 18th, 2011 - 14:07
To submit art, photos, and to allow selected users to add new pages, articles, images, comments, integrate videos and music directly on the page… it is simply incredible. I’m a total newbie with concrete5 but almost expert with a lot a CMS in the market (no one cites Xaraya, one of the strongest). But after 3 days with concrete5 I’m completely shocked. It will become my CMS tool for the next years.
February 18th, 2011 - 14:22
I am actually building a site that will let artists upload photos for sale, where the website owner receives a transaction fee / commission for each sale.
I was going to use Drupal + Ubercart, but would there be a way to do something like this with concrete5? Essentially it would be an online store for art, but artist need to be able to upload their art & add prices, and obviously should only be able to do so for their own account.
February 21st, 2011 - 21:18
Letting users add photos/videos, etc. to their own folders is easy with any number of addons – however, they cost $. But not alot…a few dozen dollars, tops. With that, you get support from the addon maker, within 48 hours (that’s Concrete5 policy…they will not let you sell your addons on the marketplace if you can’t meet the 48 hrs requirement), not to mention the time you save is totally worth it. Most of these addons are dead easy to use.
Our experience with addons has been excellent – great support, usually within hours (not even 48 hrs!), with a VERY friendly community.
Quite simply: Concrete5 is AMAZING and blows the **crap** out of the other ‘legacy’ CMS’s. It will be my CMS of choice from now on.
Oh and to the original author of this article: You CAN add forms, with file uploading, surveys, etc. easily. And it takes literally 30 seconds to do it…C5 comes with a bunch of builtin blocks for exactly that purpose. Couldn’t be simpler…
February 21st, 2011 - 21:29
When a user has uploaded their photos to their own folder, can site visitors then purchase those photos, and is there a way (or at least possibility) to take out a percentage fee from each transaction?
I did look through all the addons and could not find the right combination to do what I needed, but maybe I missed it.
BTW, I do know you can add forms etc easily … I thought I had updated the article to reflect that, or maybe I added it as a comment.
February 25th, 2011 - 09:27
What I’ve done for a single photographer was to set her site up using the built-in c5 Form block as a means for customers to place an order, using PayPal as the payment gateway. While this doesn’t allow for a way to ‘split’ off a percentage of the payments, it is a straightforward way to create an eCommerce solution in a low-cost way that the client was asking for.
Works like so: Customer specifies on the Order form (c5 Form block) what imagery they want, add in contact and shipping info, and then submit form. Site owner uses the info from that submitted form to create an invoice using PayPal, which then gets emailed to customer for payment.
It is not an ‘immediate’ solution for the site customer (though it can be surprisingly quick), but it is very cheap (per my clients request), and allows the owner of the site to interact with her clientele at the time of sale, which she puts to her advantage building the relationship while creating a marketing base for future use.
I used Drupal for several years to create sites for clients, and your article is pretty much spot-on; Drupal is an amazingly powerful framework, but to get it to a point where Joe or Jane Sixpack can log in and easily edit their site requires a lot of tweaking and adding-on, things which make for much more work on the developer side of things, keeping all the modules up to date, checking things after every module or base code update, etc… c5 is just much, much simpler to install/set up so that non-developers will be able to take control of their site and content.
March 2nd, 2011 - 20:07
As I’m trying to switch from DragNDrop Weebly to something similar easy but reliable to use in my site, since I’ve have had it with Weebly I’m trying to renew and expand user friendly my site, working exclusively as a Publisher Affiliate I do need to copy and paste my various URL’s (Banners) from my Advertisers (counts on the 100′s) and locate them accordignly under my different categories in my site. So, I’m seeking for a new hosting company that provides me with a site builder that allows me to incorporate my MANY Banners into my site with the minimum of mombo-jombo and price is also a consideration. If anyone out there has an idea please, let me know I’m desperate
Could that be Concrete5? As builder?
March 2nd, 2011 - 20:32
I’m not sure how Concrete5 would handle different categories, but it is certainly a task Joomla could handle. Drupal could too, but it would take additional development time to set up.
What you need is not a site builder (like Weebly), but a content management system. With Joomla you can create banners and assign them to specific menu items. So if you have categories, you would edit your menu so it has links to all your categories, then assign banners to those menu items as needed.
This will require the help of a web designer familiar with Joomla (or some other CMS). The site can be hosted with any of a number of hosts, but setting up Joomla will take some know-how. It can be done using cPanel if your host supports that, but then you still need t
o set up your template, pages, categories, etc. Also, if you have a site design right now and want to keep it, it would need to be converted to a Joomla template.E-mail me (casper.voogt@plethoradesign.com) if you would like my help with any of that. Some others here might have suggestions too.
March 3rd, 2011 - 02:09
Initially C5 seems like a great platform but the more you use it the worse it gets. Very buggy code and illogical thinking behind page templates and ridiculous scrapbooking hassles overall make for a very frustrating experience. And this is after using it quite a lot.
WordPress is still the mature one of the pack especially since 3.0 and the customizable menus.
March 5th, 2011 - 02:03
I have been developing software for the last 15 years. The last 10 have been web based software. I recently started working with CMS systems. I have looked at Alfresco, Joomla, Drupal and Concrete5. So far I am extremely impressed with Concrete5. I created a really simple site for my business in 8 hours. Every CMS seems to have their strengths and weaknesses but as far as ease of use, Concrete5 wins hands down.
March 9th, 2011 - 17:34
I been using Concrete5 now for the better part of a year. C5 has not only made my job easier and training my clients just as easy. That I have decided that I will soon give up on designing for Joomla and WordPress. Although, I am looking at what is new in Joomla 1.6 I still feel that C5 has the power to be the best choice. I have to date built several site now that are powered completely by C5. I love it!!!
March 29th, 2011 - 08:28
For those who Love WordPress, I encourage you to use it. As a CMS for strictly blogging, there is nothing out there that will beat it. C5 is not a blogging platform, and would probably be a little less user friendly to the casual blogger, yet comparing the two is almost like comparing apples and oranges. C5 is build for larger-scale projects and is perfect for setting up all the infrastructure to be used in an actual corporate site. Also the add-ins are unbeatable. WP/Joomla/Drupal, their add-ins are very clunky and shottily coded, but c5 you can expect some very professional usable add-ins, and yes some of them you have to pay for, but it may be worth not having to sort through 100,000 versions of a form editor only to get a bunch of clunky-widgets that don’t even work. Believe me I’ve tried, and often times I have to recode it anyways.
Also for those who want to integrate a blog in their website, I would encourage a C5-WP combo. It sounds a bit counter intuitive to use both, but it’s actually quite awesome!
March 29th, 2011 - 08:40
Is there some sort of C5-WP integration?
I think saying WP/Joomla/Drupal add-ins are very clunky and shoddily coded is a huge generalization. I think especially Drupal fans would take offense to that.
Regarding Joomla and form editors … I always use RsForm Pro and love it. It’s very powerful yet still easy to use. Others use ArtForms, BreezingForms, or ChronoForms. The better extensions tend to come at a price, but then the same is true for C5.
April 27th, 2011 - 06:45
Herrin – I’ve probably not used Concrete5 as much as you. I’m not sure about the buggy code but I know where you’re coming from when you talk about “illogical thinking behind page templates and ridiculous scrapbooking hassles.”
That said, it has so many good points which I feel far outweigh the bad points. The ease of use and speed of implementation blew me away at first. What I would really like to see is some kind of “global block” system built into Concrete5.
April 28th, 2011 - 11:25
Hi nice review, i just read the latest issue of web designer mag and it seems like they have taken a big part of your conclusion. issue 182 check it out.
April 28th, 2011 - 11:26
I did see that part of the latest issue, and am also glad they included information directly from the Concrete5 team. It’s great that we were able to put a spotlight on this CMS, because it deserves the attention.
May 1st, 2011 - 12:28
I was made aware of Concrete 5 in the April issue of Web Designer Magazine, it seemed to tick all the boxes that I was looking for in a CMS solution, ease of use, on screen layout and type editing, easy to explain to other users etc. I come from a print and not a web background, but do know how to work in CSS and HTML so have a basic understanding of what I require. I have downloaded a copy and am testing it on localhost to see how easy it is to use. I have also bought the Concrete 5 Beginners’ Guide by Remo Laubacher, which I am going through at the moment. My initial impression is that Concrete 5 creates a lot of unnecessary code, particularly if you start splitting content in the layout, seems to me a gimmick that is best avoided (I could be wrong) the other thing that I have noticed is that some Concrete5 sites take an awful long time to load. I am looking for the best CMS solution for our company’s web presence (a magazine publisher). We currently use WordPress with the help of a developer but would like to take the project in-house again, my concern with WordPress is more to do with changing the themes and working with the PHP (although this would also be the case to a certain extent with Concrete 5), I have also taken a brief look at Joomla 1.6 but feel that the learning curve for me and other team members would be too steep, but I am yet to be convinced that Concrete 5 would be the correct choice to make.
May 25th, 2011 - 20:24
Drupal 7 is fairly awesome, and there’s plenty of ways to make it easy to use. Check out the panels and context modules for some do-it-yourself page layouts. Also, if you’re really serious about selling online, doing it-yourself probably isn’t going to work, so why not have someone help you out? Also, Drupal Commerce is coming along, and is free and open source, and quite honestly blows the commerce options available here out of the water. If the words “process, framework, standard operating procedure, and reliability” come to mind, think Drupal. If you want to make your own site, and its mostly an online business card, then consider Concrete5. Of course, these are just generalizations, and either can really do anything if you know how, they are made with php which is a programming language, which by definition lets you add new functionality
May 27th, 2011 - 19:28
Concrete5 is so easy to use; training clients on how to use it has never been so simple. The inline editing makes it possible for even the worst techno-phoebe can to easily and confidently update their web sites.
Built-in versioning even makes it quick and easy to undo changes someone has made, and thank to a good user and group setup you can even ensure only certain users and/or groups have access to particular pages or even blocks.
For designers and developers, creating themes has been the simplest implementation I have ever done for any CMS.
There is a marketplace of full of add-ons and themes. Many cost a little, but they are affordable and there are a lot of free ones too.
One thing to remember is that Concrete5 itself is also FREE.
The community is not as strong as it is for other CMSs, but it is growing and most importantly it is a friendly community, which is what many CMS communities are not these days.
Most documentation is around in the community forums and in the how-tos.
This means that you have to do some searching for the answers you need, but you can usually find what you are looking for in a few minutes.
If not, just post a discussion in the community forum and you usually get a quick response to your questions.
Overall, Concrete5 gives you everything you need from a content management system.
My advice is to forget about all the other Content Management System
June 29th, 2011 - 07:46
There is also one other powerful, open source and free software looking like Concrete 5.
It is called Silex: http://projects.silexlabs.org/?/silex/flash.cms
August 11th, 2011 - 16:25
Concrete5 rocks for a number of reasons:
Totally easy to use. This CMS is built to appear just as you subconsciously want it to appear. Everything from Sitemap trees to easy navigational menus make this CMS easy for anybody to comprehend. Not only this, but just as much focus was placed under the hood as was on the graphics, meaning that this tool is just as powerful as it is pretty. The PHP is flexible, and it usually takes a lot of mistakes before the CMS starts to complain. I have also been impressed with how easy and effortless it is to install add-ons, create backups, and initiate updates, literally a click of the button!
And its not often that when you need help, the CEO himself is there to assist! The customer service for this CMS is outstanding, as well as the community.
No matter who you are, a secretary who only understands Microsoft Word to a professional Web Developer, this tool is the best one out there for you, hands-down.
September 29th, 2011 - 10:28
i think concrete is just a mess … no help found on concrete web related to my work and not on google…
October 17th, 2011 - 22:41
I am new to c5, I have only built three sites with it, and all in the last 6 months. But I am a believer, I have doubts about it all the time, and it keeps proving that it is a workhorse.
@Raphael- That seems like a self serving comment, are you related to the development of this silex project? I think we can all safely say that we don’t want a flash based cms.
@saba- I get help on the c5 site every time I look….
December 22nd, 2011 - 01:13
Anytime I have to sift through a “marketplace” of add-ons I’m instantly turned off. Open source is open source. I also agree with the content above regarding quick user-friendly business cards vs. something like a solid, extensible framework of well written clean code that you find with Drupal. Honestly, I dont even know why Drupal is included in this comparison. Its way out of the league of simple site builders. There is a price for “easy”. Sorry, but development aint easy. Over the past few years my clients always love Drupal ease of use.
December 22nd, 2011 - 02:06
Concrete5′s pretty clean too … and I don’t think it is a mess as an earlier commenter mentioned; the documentation is lacking in some places BUT its drag-and-drop interface is something I wish Joomla or Drupal could offer. It’s so easy for customers to use.
December 22nd, 2011 - 06:46
I have looked extensivley into C5 and I am impressed with the ease of use and editeding especially for the client side.
My questions are however, how easy is it to build extranets using C5?
Is it easy to create multi langauge sites?
Small pointy: how does one create folders in File Manager?
January 13th, 2012 - 12:35
With regard to Drupal usability, you must check out the April Fool’s post by the good folks at Lullabot. Unfortunately the interface is no longer up and running, but when it was, it was just like the screen shot in the post – a big box where you could type, paste images, etc, with a big button at the bottom: “Put this on the Internet”
http://www.lullabot.com/blog/announcing-drupal-ue-usability-edition
After seeing that we made the unofficial motto of our team, “We Put Your Stuff On the Internet”
January 13th, 2012 - 13:31
That is hilarious and true. That kind of ease of use is something to strive for, as oversimplified as it may be.
January 13th, 2012 - 13:32
You may want to check out http://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/chat/file-manager2/